Did Murray intentionally mean to make fun of Arthur or no? He is a mentally unstable failed comedian who, following his great lack of success and respect, loses his sanity until he becomes a nihilistic and psychotic criminal known as the . We're meant to believe the Joker is insane and unhinged enough . No copyright infringement Edit, Yes Because of the unrest on the street, the three retreat down an alley, and another bystander in a Joker mask sees them. How to check for #1 being either `d` or `h` with latex3? What is Wario dropping at the end of Super Mario Land 2 and why? He would have been separated from her as a child but, once he turned 18, if he wanted to live with his mother as soon as she was released nobody could stop that. Edit, There are nine confirmed deaths in the film, six of them killed by Arthur.The three Wall Street businessmen: shot to death, on the subwayRandall: stabbed in head with scissorsPenny Fleck: smothered with a pillow in the hospitalMurray Franklin: shot in the head at point blank range. Also Arthur & his mother have Video Players & telephone answer machines - not common to 'lower working class families' in the 70s. Arthur Fleck doesnt display any more signs of wanting to get revenge on people but, when the opportunity arises, he sure as hell takes it. (B) A competent defense lawyer (assuming Arthur could get one) could likely get the first two killings ruled justifiable homicides, but the third man he killed was retreating; pursuing him and finishing him off with malice aforethought as Arthur did is murder in the first degree according to the laws of every state in the USA. The 3 guys in the subway attacked Arthur first. However cinematographer Lawrence Sher had a more definite answer. Failed comedian turned anarchist murderer, mob boss using the insanity plea, a pure force of chaos and evil- Gotham's dark side personified. Could Arthur take such a big man down without a gun? This shows us that it is not an imagination of Arthur or a misinterpretation but rather that Randall is fully aware of his role in handing the gun over to Arthur.Most of these contacts are also contrasted by Gary. Edit, Probably. This is before the era of ubiquitous metal detectors, photo i.d. While Arthur spares his other former colleague, Gary (who's with Randall when he's murdered), the latter character is presumably killed for his part in getting Arthur fired. Edit, Viewers have offered two opinions1.) WARNING: Major spoilers for Joker. Does the fact that Penny suffered form mental illness suggest that she was Arthur's Mother and he had inherited his mental illness from her? He seemed like a jerk who liked to pick on Arthur's condition? Few characters are wearing flared Jeans,Bright suits or have long hair ,these were very much Out Of Style by the '80s 1981 is when the movie takes place, but did Joker become to become Joker in the 80's in the setting of other Batman movies? This is an indictment of American television and the mind-numbing incessant sameness of every day's formulaic show -- a conformity of First Amendment rights to people's sense of propriety. , as well as the fact that Bruce's actor played a young Joaquin in another film. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. It could've been his imagination, or they could've been laughing AT him and not WITH him but Arthur interpreted it as the audience enjoying his performance. What is the exact timeline of the Joker movie universe? Like he is on the spectrum and he cannot relate. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Arthur Fleck finally gets his chance to be on the Murray Franklin show when a video of his dire standup gets mocked by Robert De Niros character. 2) It's from all the abuse he suffered from his mothers boyfriend when he was younger. Was Thomas Wayne meant to be a character who is "rude" like Arthur Fleck says? Why can't the police find Arthur after the subway shooting? While Fleck doesnt do anything particularly bad, hes creepy throughout the showdown. Edit, In the movie Arthur is an adult. Are those cigarettes real? Fleck being a rather unreliable observer, one can see how Wayne would have a rather different opinion of himself. But there is something a bit off with this scene. Even then Randall takes advantage of the good nature of Arthur by talking him into taking the gun.When things go awry, Randall quickly (and successfully) tries to push the blame on Arthur, which is when Arthur realizes the true colors of Randall.Then later, when the walls are closing in on the gun, Randall makes contact with Arthur again, to ensure that "their stories will align". It could also be interpreted it as him threatning her if she told anyone he was in her apartment.At that point he probably was thinking of committing a suicide. Joaquin played the role perfectly. Followed by beating him until all he can do is lay on the ground in pain. Also whenever Arthur's condition causes him to uncontrollably laugh, in the most inappropriate situations that angers people he didn't mean to offend, with it visibly distressing and physically hurting him. Arthur's counsellor who eventually cut off his access to meds, which led him spiralling downwards even further, was also a black woman -- even though it was the system that failed both her and Arthur. This is where we go from feeling sorry for him to seeing him as the psychopath he is. We see clips of them on a date, footage of her watching his stand up comedy, moments of them eating food at a diner and even a brief video where she appears to be consoling him when his mother suffers a stroke. It's not impossible he just never met her again until he was an adult after she was committed rightfully or not and tried to live back a fantasy. Joker 's ending leaves the truth of the DC villain's origin almost as mysterious as before it began. Perhaps he even expected his crew to check for weapons, but they slipped up. Edit, One curious fact about Joker's origins is that they're left up in the air. The first scene we see Randall, as he hands Arthur a gun, Randall has an evil smile on his face while suggesting Arthur pays him back sometime, followed up with you know youre my boy. which triggers Arthurs laugh. II. VASPKIT and SeeK-path recommend different paths. Afterwards despite having bruises all over his body, his employer accuses Arthur of stealing the sign and dodging work because he finds people stealing a sign and beating him up over it too implausible, and quite clearly assumes Arthur is lying because he is mentally ill, before declaring the cost of the sign will be cut from his paycheck, Arthur just stares and smiles at him in tranquil disbelief and anger. Also even though 'Gotham' is a 'Make Believe' city it is clearly modelled on New York - as seen in previous films & the 'City out of control' matches the New York of the early '80s when the film appears to be set - in 1981 there was the highest number of murders recorded & the reported crime figures eventually led to various measures including the eventual 'urban renewal programs'. // When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he was told to have it for self-defense? Also, Murray seems to understand that Arthur isn't actually insane, It's clear that Arthur is trying to justify his crimes, and as far as Murray can tell, Arthur is pretending to be the subway murderer to gain attention. That line is important. But as a political statement that the victims of oppression and economic destitution in 1980s Gotham City, which is a mirror of New York city, are predominantly black? The Joker famously said in "The Killing Joke" that his origin story is "multiple choice," and this movie certainly upholds that claim with a vengeance for Arthur Fleck (mostly by making him an unreliable narrator and leaving the audience to guess how much of what it's seeing is real and how much is just hallucinatory or a self-serving memory). (big clown coworker that gives him a gun) 4 7 comments Add a Comment 3 yr. ago Randal was the one who told his boss that he had a gun and that it was Arthur who wanted to buy one off him Owen_301 3 yr. ago Pretty sure his boss found out when it fell out at the hospital kidcuisine27 3 yr. ago [deleted] RELATED: Joker's Backlash Ended Up Being A Marketing Trick. Hes left crushed, however, when the butler labels his mother as crazy and insists she made the whole thing up due to issues with her own mental state. What Randall didnt think would happen, however, was that Joker would bring the gun into a childrens hospital. I feel as though Randall played some role in abusing Arthur as an adult. We saw that Arthur ran out of ammo during the subway scene, but then he had some when going on TV. Edit, Yes, within the scope of this movie these things are absolutely possible. He showed up to make sure Arthur wouldn't incriminate him in the subway murders. While not murdering is a positive, strangling the guy for doing his job is just plain wrong. Why did Thomas Wayne punch Arthur instead of confronting him calmly like Alfred did? Arthur took a lot of anti depressant medication, and didn't seem to accept being offered alcohol, like when Randall and Gary came to his apartment with what appeared to be a wine bottle so did Arthur have to avoid alcohol while taking his anti depressant medication? Privacy Policy. Randall, apart from generally being mean, insisted on him taking his gun. He would have needed to set this bag down in order to retrieve two additional rounds and insert them in the weapon. Edit, The movie appears to be set in 1980's Gotham City, which is heavily inspired by New York in that time period. What kind of condition did Arthur have that made him laugh uncontrollably? At the very end, Arthur supposedly kills the black doctor off-screen in the hospital. | So the therapist more than likely sat in a room with this man alone, as is often depicted in film, but all she got out of him was hysterical laughing during an episode before he was brought back to his room.Edit: Another possibility is that some scenes were real, and some scenes, such as everything from after he shot Murray until the final interview scene, were in his head. Archived post. Randall is shown to be so concerned for Arthur's well-being after he gets beaten that he gives him the firearm to defend himself. Essentially, audiences can watch the movie as director Todd Phillips' stab at making a movie about mental health. Joker is a movie that has taken both the box office and social media by storm, with the disturbing story of Arthur Fleck garnering mixed viewpoints among fans. Did the drapes in old theatres actually say "ASBESTOS" on them? It is basically a scene of a child craving for warmth and affection. It's a form of rebirth. When Arthur is told by his mother, Penny Fleck, that hes related to Thomas Wayne, he takes her words at face value. One thing I didn't quite understand in Joker was why Randall betrayed Arthur so quickly when the gun was found. It only takes a minute to sign up. Edit, It's implied that Arthur killed the psychologist who was talking to him and asked him about what he was laughing about at the end of the movie.I did think that was probably the case but I also thought it was odd she was alone with him in the room considering what he had supposedly done.Note that he had handcuffs on as he spoke with her, and continued to have them when he was walking down the hall, dancing, and being chased by staff. Contact us That said, it's likely that Penny's issues have a deeper root cause than mere sadness. Edit, No, WB wanted Leonardo Dicaprio instead of Joaquin Phoenix but Todd Phillips refused that because he wrote the script with Joaquin in mind. But this only serves to bring out the blandness and correctness of Murray Franklin, who as a consummate showman, also pulls off terrible one-liners. But there is something a bit off with this scene. It's possible he was incapable of any human emotion anymore, besides, it would seem, glee at destruction, mayhem, and homicide. Accepting that, it's easy to accept that any nurses who'd be required to step-in were just busy or neglectful/incompetent. Millions of Indonesian parents abandoned a measles vaccine in 2018 when it was declared haram. 1) It's later, as the building appears to be Arkham. Its a decision that costs Arthur his beloved job as a clown and gives him even less reason to embrace the good things in life. Python script that identifies the country code of a given IP address. Gotham is already a powder keg, and Arthur unknowingly lights the fuse that sets off others to take up violent action, inspired by Arthur's actions. Episodes may also be mood-incongruent: a patient may laugh uncontrollably when angry or frustrated, for example. But by the time Arthur gets on the show with Murray Franklin, he becomes a natural showman. Who plays Batman, the other side of the coin, and why isn't he credited? Arthur and a number of Gotham's lower-class residents certainly seem to think so. But maybe, if she lived, Sophie called the police about Arthur, which could be another reason why Detectives Garrity (Bill Camp) and Burke (Shea Whigham) returned to Arthur's apartment building to talk to him again. What kind of mental illnesses does Arthur have? Privacy Policy. PS: Because if things didn't fall into place, the director would have no way to make arthur fleck the joker, and justify the name of the movie And the cinema appears to be an 'upmarket venue' showing 'First or 2nd' runs of films "Does the fact that the original health worker and interview room, were different from those at the end of the movie not suggest it was a reality and at least some of the events did occur?Edit: There isn't "every indication" it was all in his head. Edit, Depends on who you ask. The ending is a scene before the actual movie. This is the resolution of the character -- where the imagined self and the actual self merges to become something that was not even present before throughout the movie until this point. He's an unreliable narrator who has a poor relationship with his mother. And was it Arkham State Hospital. Did Joaquin Phoenix really go mad, losing 52 lbs. If this incident (or something like it) did in fact happen, Thomas was most likely "flying off the handle" at Arthur for having put his fingers in his son Bruce's mouth; a rather creepy violation of the child's personal space that would seriously upset any decent parent or guardian, though not necessarily to the point of provoking such a violent reaction. The fridge can be seen as a womb of sorts, with Arthur climbing inside taking the fetal position and emerging anew as Joker. But within this call for help is also the speaking of truth. RELATED:Joaquin Phoenix Wanted Joker To Have End-Credits Footage. Randall represents the elite whereas Garry is a symbol of the lower classes. Anorexia is sometimes considered a form of body dismorphia, which could also be why he seems more comfortable when wearing his clown makeup.. Why is Joaquin Phoenix's version of Joker wearing a red suit doesn't Joker always wear purple? Simply put, there probably aren't enough nurses on staff at the time to cover all the stations and respond to all the alerts, affording Arthur an opportunity he might otherwise not have in a better healthcare system. A contextual clue that maybe he didn't is later, Fleck didn't murder Gary (Leigh Gill) because the little person was the only clown at his workplace who was nice to him. He was going to be the "joke" to everyone. The events showing Arthur firing 8 rounds, none of which missed, could not have happened for two main reasons. Edit, Because Arthur realized the reason why he was asked to go on the show was to embarrass him. (A) The police are not tasked with sorting out what's murder and what's self-defense; that's for courts to decide. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Forcing a mental patient to quit cold-turkey was probably viewed as unnecessarily stressful, particularly at a time when only the most strident anti-smoking crusader would have even cared. He appeared to be trying to show Arthur the error of his ways during the conversation6.) Joker's Ending Explained. So he made a "comedy" bit out of it instead. I'm pretty sure they hadn't invented VHS-recorders back then. Usually the Joker's laughter is portrayed as campy, terrifying, or some combination thereof. Edit, This Question, like many others, is answered by the theory that - None of it was real. Arthur then killed Randall, when Randall and Gary came to visit. Edit, He certainly could, but: For more information, please see our Garry was always nice to him. Edit, The pillow is crushing the tube, probably the nose too. When she asks what's so funny, he hands her a card explaining he has a condition. Could it be possible that Arthur didn't want Penny to be his mother? He asks several times to get Arthur to confirm that he's the killer. Initially, all signs point to Joaquin Phoenixs character offing himself on live television to make a grand statement about mental illness and society, with Arthur even putting a gun to his head by a way of practice. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. If it was reality there is no way ( after killing all those people ) they would have allowed Arthur to be in the interview room at Arkham just sitting opposite his counsellor.

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